Roleplaying Elves

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Sat Feb 28, 2004 5:48 pm

If you don't want to spend the money on dice, Wizards of the Coast has an online 'dice roller': 
 
<a href="http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20010427b">www.wizards.com/default.a.../20010427b</a> 
 
It seems to run from Java and works fine. 
 
goatte (faelar)

Sucelus · Post by **Sucelus** » Tue Mar 02, 2004 8:46 pm

Great considerations that lead to an important topic. 
 
As we know well, all elves usually have distinctives characteristics from world to world (Basic AD*D/Forgotten realms/Dragonlance/Shadowworld), game to game (Rolemaster/ AD&D), Mythology from Mithology (Christianism/Celtic). 
 
Consideration valid for other races. 
Althought in all world we find a J.R.R. Tolkien basis : 
Elf "superior" and secretive but in waning power (racial consideration). 
Grudge with dwarves, inverse work as well. 
Halfling beeing apart, those are the ones that vary the most froom world to world game to game. 
 
Human growing power, while "manish races" tend to disapear. 
 
I haven´t read them (yet), but there seems to be quite good and specifics links to the races descriptions of the races here. 
A good thing too, i suppose it would be harduous to do, but a race to race map relationship (Stereotiped) )would enhance much the comprehention of people to how to RP a character, at at least give some right sauseage to it. 
And another good thing would be to post this with background material (faith/Race/land....) 
 
But we must remember: 
1) That all in all we are a small comunity 
2) Are those who come here the "vast" (double sense intended) majority ? 
3) That our PC aren´t stereotipe like. (adventurers represent what 1% ? maybe 5% at max of the total population.) 
4) we´re are driven to a higher goal (evil good or neutral, egoist or altruist) and we are ready to put our neck in line, such things sayd it would be obvious that our PC are more able to deal with "strange" alliances, and make concessions in name of theyr goal, whatever this is. 
 
If we where to keep stereotipe : 
Dwarves would claim some goblin/orc cavern and makit theyr reign and start mining. 
Elves would claim some part of the wood and start managing it. 
And we really would not see them much in dale as spawn points would have to have an option of separation by race. 
I´ve seen this done on other servers, but althought its a great idea, it kills the characters relationship that we see so strong and find so pleasant in the vast. 
 
To be short, stereotype is good as "referance" but do not make it too strong, do not make it the "Central attraction", or IMO the comunity will loose its interest ad we´ll start to see "claning". 
 
Sucellus.

Cafall · Post by **Cafall** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 3:31 am

In making this thread I intended to give players access to the factors that influence elves at large; not tell people how to play their character. I don't want every elf running around to be a strict stereotype, but I do hope that people who want to make an elven character will look at these things and find them useful. Whether or not an elf character conforms to their fellows, they will always be influenced to some extent by them, and I want to allow people to know what those influences are.

-- Cafall (Corvus Gwynstredd'ae and Harritan Middleson)

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 6:52 am

You were clear, Cafall, IMHO. You were putting forth resources so that we could better roleplay elves located in the specific world of Faerun. There's nothing wrong with restrictions on how we play our characters, because archetypes, not stereotypes would be the basis of all characters. Karn isn't the archetypical Dwarf, but that doesn't mean that he and the archetypical Dwarf bear no relation. Karn doesn't like haflings or gnomes, but he has been able to overcome this dislike through conscious effort. He uses Dwarvish weapons, but his thought processes are highly influenced by the humans he has spent much of his childhood and adult life among. 
 
I once watched Ruben roleplay his knowledge of King Tuir and the Dwarven kingdom that existed in the Vast prior to the human cities. That made the tunnels we were exploring that much more interesting. Had he started talking about Tolkien Dwarves, he would have lost me. 
 
Let's keep the thread on track, as I find the information we're sharing fascinating. 
 
Also, this information isn't a straightjacket, but it helps us to avoid creating a character and trying to 'shoe horn' him into the Vast. Creating a character based solely on game mechanics leaves us with two dimensional characters, IMHO. On the servers I've played, I've seen bizarre mixtures, like 'kung fu dwarves,' 'gnome barbarians,' and others. It's kind of like wearing pajamas to a wedding, IMHO. You may be comfortable, but it detracts from the overall experience of others. 
 
Also, if you spend the time to research and roleplay a character, you will get my interest and make me part with the gold when you need a raise dead spell. The 'kung fu dwarf' won't be getting my gold. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> 
 
Final idea: If you have no clue what mold you are rebelling from, how can you truly rebel? 
 
goatte (karn)

Saxjamm · Post by **Saxjamm** » Wed Mar 03, 2004 4:34 pm

*Saxjamm begins character ideas for new Kung Fu Dwarf* 
 
Greetings, I am Pato, dwarven monk of Ilmater! Axes high! <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/laugh.gif ALT=":lol">

Cafall · Post by **Cafall** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 8:32 pm

Time to dig up this thing again. Yet another incredibly long-winded post... oh well. Enjoy.

Elven Language

Elven is, according to the D&D v3.5 Player's Handbook, "a fluid language of subtle intonations and intricate grammar." I think everyone can imagine the general sound of the language, as it's basically taken from nearly every bit of elven folklore ever made. Elven has many different dialects; I won't get into specifics, because it's mainly up to the individual imagination (i.e. it hasn't been catalogued as far as I know), but there seem to be two main subsets: the dialects used by wild and wood elves and those used by moon and sun elves, as well as any others a player might make up (complex dialects uncommon except in literature, dialects spoken by isolated pockets of elven culture, etc.). Elves can generally understand dialects they weren't taught with some effort at deciphering the differences in the speech, though they are rarely able to speak them because they are imitating subtle differences in the language which they may or may not have picked up correctly, and obscure sub-dialects most elves will not be able to understand without some exposure to the parent dialect (for example, the extremely obscure child of Wild Elven spoken by Farawen). However, the most powerful tool for determining whether or not an individual can speak and understand any given dialect is up to that character's history.

Elven uses an alphabet called Espruar, the full alphabet of which can be found in the FRCS book (Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting); it consists mainly of downward strokes and arcs, with very little punctuation. Espruar does not flow together like cursive English. Aglarondan, Dambrathan, and Undercommon all use the Espruar alphabet as well.

A Word on Undercommon

Undercommon has strong roots in Elven. When the drow were banished to the Underdark, they took their language with them, and adapted it to fit their environment. The language was eventually picked up by most sentient Underdark races, and became known as Undercommon. Because it originated directly from Elven, it uses the Espruar alphabet.

From MythDrannor.net:
Each drow city has it's own dialect. This is largely due to the fact that drow cities are isolated by the geography and the physical make up of the under dark and the fact the drow highly xenophobic. While trade and commerce do take place, little cultural exchange occurs. Like their surface cousins, the differences between dialects are not enough to constitute a change in language. However to natives, or those surface dwellers that are trained and observant, there are noticeable differences in the speech patterns of the drow cities.

Surface dwellers often say that the drow language, regardless of dialect, is disturbing to hear. Sounds that emulate dripping water, wind blowing through a cavern, the clicking of giant spiders, moans and the like constitute much of the tongue and echo-like inflections are usually present. Much of this disturbing effect is lost on the drow themselves, who have spoken this language for millennia.

That's it. Any comments? I know the section on dialects is particularly messy.

-- Cafall (Corvus Gwynstredd'ae and Harritan Middleson)

ShyVast · Post by **ShyVast** » Wed Mar 10, 2004 9:24 pm

Great info an Links Cafall. And I recognize the Sindarin one. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/wink.gif ALT=";)"> 
Also, I have noticed many non-elves speaking elven. Keep in mind, if your player speaks elven, even if they have been studying the language for many years, it will still sound childish and primative at best to an elf. But once again,thanks for the post Cafall, and for the effort you put into constructive suggestions.

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:07 am

bump

<hr />The ends don't justify the means. The means shape the ends; you become what you do.<hr />"They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty nor security." 
-Benjamin Franklin<hr />

Kalexon · Post by **Kalexon** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 9:05 pm

Thought I might post something on the mental part of an elves life. 
 
In the not too distant past, a dwarf bounty hunter made a terrible mistake. While pursuing a fleeing half-elf foe, he came upon an elf hamlet. He wrongly assumed it to be the home of the half-elf culprit. Nothing would satisfy him that this was not the case, and he grew ever more enraged that the elves were "hiding" his rightful prey from him. 
In the dwarf's anger and his lust for the reward money, he cruelly slew a woodsman—using the elf's own axe to cleave the widower in two. The elf's four children, who had been playing nearby, froze in fear. Ignoring the grief-stricken children, the ruthless dwarf turned once more to the woods. There he found old tracks made by the fleeing half-elf, and the dwarf set off after his foe again. 
Elves being elves, the children were taken in and nurtured as best the hamlet could. Most were eventually fostered away to other villages, for the hamlet couldn't support children whose provider had passed on. Despite being separated, the four children nursed a private longing for vengeance in their hearts. Each trained diligently to understand the ways of the forest and of tracking, learning its subtle nuances that they might avenge their father. 
Fifty years passed after the death of their father before the young elves deemed they were ready. They reunited and swore a solemn oath not to rest until they found the slayer of their father. The four then split off, each heading in a direction of the compass. Burned in their minds was the image of the dwarf. They questioned all they came across, and some sought certain magical items. Finally, one of them found a lead and left word for her siblings to follow as soon as possible. 
The old dwarf had retired from bounty hunting to live alone in the mountains. The four elves swooped into his house and stole him from his doze by the fire. None ever saw the dwarf again, but his house still stands. Hacked limbs are left on the doorstep every few years—the hacked limbs of an old dwarf. To date, there have been 17 arms and 12 legs. 
A ring of regeneration can work wonders in vengeance. 
The key to understanding the elven mind is comprehending the years an elf must fill. Most races do not (and cannot) understand the perspective hundreds of years of life lend an elf. This incredible lifespan often gives the elf a terrible, driving ambition. Paradoxically, it can also give elves a lackadaisical attitude. 
Above all, elves are patient. They have years to complete any task, and they don't mind the wait. After all, they have created many ways to wile away time. They find impatience to be an especially amusing vice possessed by the other races. If the need for haste is urgent, however, elves can move faster and more decisively than most of the other races. 
Elves tend to be very clever and devious, having had years to practice their skills and hone their minds. Their conversation and their games possess many degrees of subtlety, most of which goes unheeded by non-elves. 
Elves delight in paradox and humor, for it is through these attributes that they express themselves most fully. These two qualities allow them to communicate with one another and affords great verbal play as elves try to outwit each other. Although elves are primarily happy folk, they are capable of great emotions of a much darker nature. 
An angry elf is a terrible foe. An elf bent on vengeance is even worse. As mentioned, elves have an inexhaustible store of patience. They can wait for years before exacting revenge—after their prey has been lulled into a false sense of security. Or they can hunt their enemies over the years, never faltering or slowing in the pursuit of their quarry. 
Occasionally, elves will make a pretense of the hunt and let the person "escape." After the person has taken to flight, the elf is likely to appear at random intervals—a tactic designed to keep fear instilled in the heart of the person. This can make for a life of anxiety for anyone who has earned the wrath of elves, for that person never knows when the elf may strike to claim vengeance. This is one reason that the elves are so feared as foes, for no one wishes to live a paranoid life fearing elven wrath.

TrooperMaxx · Post by **TrooperMaxx** » Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:52 pm

(Siril's reference seems to have been the complete book of elves, <a href="http://www.coryj.net/CoreRule/corerule.php?page=DD04744.htm">here</a>) 
 
I think that hits on its points, but somehow the story seems a little harsh to me. Not saying elves aren't capable of being harsh, just that it seemed needlessly harsh both ways, on the part of the dwarf and which of course caused the harshness of the elves... Oh well, it does make its points on the elven mindset, thanks for pointing that out Siril. 
 
Thought I should point out two things elves hold in high regard, Life and Individuality. Yeah, just recently read Chainfire, and Terry Goodkind may be losing his mind, but those are things Richard, the main character, holds in high regard as well. 
 
Life: Elves enjoy life. They live it to the fullest, and foster it in others. They avoid endangering their lives and acting foolishly, again, they are patient. Perhaps what truly shows their value for life is that they do not have the concept of an "illegitimate child", for they see life as a blessing, despite how it may have come about. There is no stigma attached to the offspring of brief passion among elven couplings that do not last. 
 
Individuality: Individuality is exactly the thing that shows one's zest for life. Elves give each other space to be individuals and relish in their pursuits. An elf may try his hand at many trades as he likes throughout his life, there is a trend of nonspecialization and most elves can care for themselves without greatly depending on others. They do not think of each other as "the blacksmith" or "the carpenter", though there may certainly be those more skilled in such things, they do not see it as anyone's responsibility to fulfill a specific trade for the community. 
 
Not quoting that from anywhere, a lof of that is in the back of my head from Races of the Wilds, I believe. 
 
~Troop

goatte · Post by **goatte** » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:21 am

Great points, trooper. Life: furthermore, elves see the undead as a true abomination, since true death isn't something that the elves fear. They expect to go to Arvandor(sp?) when they die, unless they're Drow. Becoming undead is seen is a horrible loss of that eventual reunion with the Seldarine and their family members who have already passed to Arvandor(sp?). (This I saw in the 'Complete Book of Elves' book that appeared at the website that Thorned Rose posted. - Great link by the way. Thanks, Thorned Rose.) 
 
The quality of Life is important, also. An elven life exists as part of a community tied together by the Weave. Half-elves aren't part of that and exist because the Elven parent selfishly denied that part of their heritage to their child. Many elves, especially Sun Elves, see half-elves as a horrible tragedy. Queen Amlaruil of Evermeet's own daughter gave birth to a half-elf that the Queen can not formally accept as her granddaughter. (I think I remember reading this in the 'Elves of Evermeet' supplement) 
 
Individuality, can be greater or lesser based on the elven sub-race. The Sun Elves can lean towards LG or NG as far as alignment, which means a greater sublimation of personal will to the greater good than other Elves. 
 
goatte (faelar)

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