You and your charisma.

Jiian · Post by **Jiian** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 12:13 am

I agree with ish on this point. There are so many people in real life who are very cultured, who I would say have an extremely high charisma that people will follow because they -does- respect those around them and engender the same in those people. This is by no means how it has to be, but an example of charismatic folks who believe they should put themselves on the same level as others(which may even make them more charismatic).

Cafall · Post by **Cafall** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 4:54 am

Oh, maybe I didn't explain myself well... I simply meant that the higher someone's Charisma is, the more a low Charisma stands out to them.

-- Cafall (Corvus Gwynstredd'ae and Harritan Middleson)

Amirsyl · Post by **Amirsyl** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:16 am

Ah.. that does make more sense. That could go as well. It's too bad that this is such a general ability. You can really look at it in so many different ways. Sort of like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 
 
Amir-

ish07 · Post by **ish07** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:00 am

Perhaps, but would that be assuming the high charisma person spends most his/her time around other "beautiful people?" I suppose that would mean the "pretty" person "knows" he/she is likeable/pretty/respected/whatever... 
*grins* We're pulling out so many dynamics... 
 
Ish.

Amirsyl · Post by **Amirsyl** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 7:08 am

It could go on and on until *gasps and looks at the clock* 3AM. I agree. Endless dynamics even. 
 
Amir-

Innuvindyl · Post by **Innuvindyl** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 8:21 am

*shrugs* Just gonna toss another view/angle into this... 
 
We have chatted a lot about playing your charisma, but what about playing others charisma. 
 
I mean it sucks to play your super low charisma character to the state of the art, if everyone just kind of ignores it. 
 
Not that I see it happen much, but sometimes... *blinks* just thought it could be an interesting discussion as well.

Cafall · Post by **Cafall** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 3:27 pm

That's a good point. You won't see so many half-orcs being fawned over if their play their Charisma, but the people fawning over them have to be willing to respond appropriately to a disgusting fella.

-- Cafall (Corvus Gwynstredd'ae and Harritan Middleson)

ish07 · Post by **ish07** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:03 pm

Right. We can only react to the personality portrayed to us; this is where altering one's "examine" description is helpful, as far as determining distinguishing characteristics, such as beauty or ugliness. Of course, this can always be worked in through dialogue IG, the description just makes it easier.

Ecclessia · Post by **Ecclessia** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:33 pm

I think it's important to remember that an average or slightly below average Charisma is just that. It's average (or slightly below.). People can still feel drawn to them, be in awe of them, and they are still admired by some. 
 
In addition, as Ish has pointed out, reputation is separate altogether - the BG engine had a system for that: regardless of your Charisma, your reputation could influence people's reactions to you - and I think this is the case with many of the 'legends' of the Vast (Valens, Averas, etc...). 
 
in response to Jiann, I believe that many charismatic leaders lead in that manner, by coming alongside the people rather than above them. A charismatic person has a strong personality and inner-strength, is culturally mannered, and perhaps good-looking. These people command attention from all, perhaps even without the reputation to back it up. 
 
A person of lower charisma but high reputation might still command much respect (the crude but renowned half-orc barbarian?) and draw many people because of his renown, but be completely inept when it comes to dealing with the people around him.

Ecclessia · Post by **Ecclessia** » Tue Feb 24, 2004 5:48 pm

Alignment and race factor into how one views others, most often. 
 
If it helps, the old saga rules system called Charisma "Presence" and mixed in "Willpower." 
 
From DL:fifth age 
 
Spirit: Willpower/mysticism 
Presence: Leadership/resisting mysticism

Jiian · Post by **Jiian** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 12:02 am

MMM... craft bunny. Yeah! So, anyway, I've gotten many tells about playing one's charisma and intelligence properly. As in quite a few people seem to really want to know if I think they are playing their charisma properly. I am not quite sure why they ask -me- but they do. Anyway, I usually respond with questions about what aspects of charisma they are trying to portray in their character. I really think that charisma has always been very largely based on perceptions of the people playing and the DM. Some cultures value forwardness to floweriness in speech, for others floweriness is much more important. These two cultures see flowery speech as raising or lowering charisma, depending on what the mindset is in that area. That's the kicker. I really prefer to place charisma in the presence category, because otherwise charisma lowers or raises just by travelling.

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Fri Aug 05, 2005 3:58 am

RaynenArrows · Post by **RaynenArrows** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:38 am

Ok here it goes....oh and thanks AG for the bump of the thread. 
 
Now I had asked a question concearning the new dwarf ( Trent Clubthumper) I created not to long ago. He has a very low chr. and I was curious about how to portray him. So, as I read through the whole thing, I either missed something, or just didnt understand everything I was reading, (and there was alot of reading<img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/tongue.gif ALT=":b"> ) some of my questions didnt get answered. So Im going to try to jumpstart the discussion again. 
 
My 1 question is this....If I play a charcater with a low chr, does that nessesarily mean he has to be mean and cranky and all that. Or can he be, crude, sloppy, disgusting (mannerizm wise) and as far as looks go just plain ugly, and still have a decent personality? 
 
I am most curious about is the fact that we have alignments, then we have chr. By all that Im seeing, and I know I could be way wrong, is that Chr determins your personality. If thats the case then what does alignment represent. 
 
For exsample, say you have a LG PC with a charisma of 9. Thats would mean he is a dedicated good man no one likes? 
 
Or, if you have a CE pc with a chr. of 18, would that mean we have a serial Killer everyone loves? 
 
*shrugs* Maybe this is really simple and Im missing it, but in my defense I am on painkillers right now. <img src=http://www.ezboard.com/images/emoticons/happy.gif ALT=":D">

Post by **Algernon's Ghost** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:12 am

Or can he be, crude, sloppy, disgusting (mannerizm wise) and as far as looks go just plain ugly, and still have a decent personality?

Can you elaborate on what you mean there? It seems to me that crude, sloppy, and disgusting reflect on personality, and I'm not sure what you mean by "decent personality". Some examples might help.

By all that Im seeing, and I know I could be way wrong, is that Chr determins your personality. If thats the case then what does alignment represent.

Charisma is just one facet of personality. Charisma would represent the strength of "presence" a person might project (think of how a top-notch performer can immediately sway a crowd), and leadership abilities. Alignment would reflect a person's moral and ethical views. Hitler was a highly charismatic person, but would probably have been Lawful Evil.

TrooperMaxx · Post by **TrooperMaxx** » Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:16 am

Personality isn't really defined by the stats, although INT, WIS, and CHA do influence it. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>My 1 question is this....If I play a charcater with a low chr, does that nessesarily mean he has to be mean and cranky and all that. Or can he be, crude, sloppy, disgusting (mannerizm wise) and as far as looks go just plain ugly, and still have a decent personality?<hr></blockquote> 
 
Low charisma does not imply a mean and cranky personality. Low charisma just means that your character is not inspiring. Others may look on him with disgust and/or pity or just simply would rather not be around him. Just think much less than charming, but not necessarily mean and cranky, they may just put people off by their manner. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>I am most curious about is the fact that we have alignments, then we have chr. By all that Im seeing, and I know I could be way wrong, is that Chr determins your personality. If thats the case then what does alignment represent.<hr></blockquote> 
 
Alignment is your character's ethical outlook upon the world which is different than charisma. Charisma does not necessarily mean somebody will automatically like a person, but it is personal magnetism and how awe-inspiring they are. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>For example, say you have a LG PC with a charisma of 9. Thats would mean he is a dedicated good man no one likes?<hr></blockquote> 
 
This would be a good man dedicated to the law, but lacking of social grace. He may have trouble getting others to follow him except by his merits. He could also be uncouth and just uninspiring. People may agree with him, but aren't drawn to him. 
 
<blockquote>Quote:<hr>Or, if you have a CE pc with a chr. of 18, would that mean we have a serial Killer everyone loves?<hr></blockquote> 
 
Think evil seductive sorceress/succubi/incubi(for you ladies). You don't agree with her, but when she says it, it somehow inspires you and you are tempted to forget about your misgivings and help her. An evil you may not agree with but there is so much personal magnetism it is harder to oppose and disagree with it (depending on the strength of your ethos/willpower). 
 
Or for a real example, think Adolf Hitler. I think everyone would say that he is an evil man, but he was able to incite people to follow him by his great charisma. 
 
Alignment defines your ethical outlook (ethos). 
 
Charisma is personal magnetism: how inspiring (when ethos agree) or seductive (when ethos clash) the person is. 
 
Hope that make sense. 
 
~Troop

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