The Vast

I'd like to discuss the importance of character motivation and story when planning and joining quests. It is paramount that the characters involved have an in character reason for the quest, whether initiating, or joining. Everyone wants to be on the next quest, which is natural, but please ask yourself if your character would reasonably join that quest. Also, don't forget the importance of in character, in game discussion, and how it can enhance the story and player immersion.

Is the quest a natural course for your character, or is it an excuse to get out there and do something?

How does searching for a vein gold in a distant cave fit into your character's personality and story? If it doesn't, then why do it?

How do you integrate your character's life-purpose into his or her actions within the game world?

I do not point a finger at any specific player or character here. These are just some of the questions I would pose for discussion. I will add more as they come into mind, and I encourage you to include your own questions, as well as answers. Let's all make this a helpful, insightful discussion together.

This is something I had been thinking about for Matyas personally, how do I rationalize his interest in traveling to some of these particular places? For a long time I didn't travel much abroadm but I eventually settled on the mantra (that has mentioned on these boards before), "You're adventurers, go adventure." Matyas is concerned with the defense of the towns and community, and recently I realized he has not been branching out much. That's why I've had him organize (both formally and informally) trips to places he has not yet been, like the Bandit Territory and Kalor Vale. After all, it's important to understand the threats and the geography if you hope to help the people of the land.

My other character, Caedmon (who I play quite rarely), is more interested in pure adventure. Seeing places for the sake of seeing them, seeking out glory, wealth, and a good story.

Both of those mindsets lead to the desire to travel many places.

Now one thing I have wrestled with, is returning to places such as Algorah (the Warrens fits in with this too). I'm not particularly comfortable with the idea of, "Haven't been to Algorah in a while, let's see how those ghosts are doing." Of course, there is merit to the notion of "keeping tabs on various threats", but it shouldn't be overdone. I prefer to think of some in character reason to return, perhaps to investigate or explore a particular theory about the land.

Now, AG mentioned something that I know I often whitewash, and that's planning these missions in character and in game some. That can be difficult, but I know I should try to do that a bit more.

Anyway, just a few thoughts, I may return to post more in a bit.

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edit - I realized that I wrote about my characters specifically a lot, and that may not be the exact intent of this thread. I did that just to relate some of my ideas on adventuring and to offer some specific examples (as it's often not easy to determine other's motivations. This is only somewhat true, as a few characters are very good about having an "agenda" and a very clear motive for their actions.

Hrmm, An interesting question AG.

I will speak for Keldorn since he is my main character.

I understood coming here to the vast or soon after starting here, as I was molding Keldorn into what I wanted him to be I had to find an adventure hook for him. Understanding the lands of the vast using old 1st ED source material I decided to base his reasons for adventuring by seeking old ruins of the kingdom of Glimmering swords other wise known as Rodillar. As many know this was a surface/subsurface realm of dwarves in the vast that was eventually destroyed by orcs then the elves arrived and drove out the orcs with the aid of man thus becoming the lands as we see them today. The Vast (PW) as I came to learn played well with this adventure hook for Keldorn, since it is abundant with ruins of ancient structures all over the place, one just needs to know where to look or for that mater explore to find them.

Keldorn himself is a leader as I would say the same for me who plays him. I enjoy taking initiative and setting the foundation for an adventure by planning out what I want to do and accomplish before hand. I actually sit down a day or two before I put one of my journeys up on our forums and plan out what I want to do on a note pad (yes read ultra geek). Perhaps as some of my friends say it’s my 14 years of being a PnP DM coming through, I guess. An interesting fact about Keldorn, if I’m not mistaken he began running adventures from about 2nd or 3rd level, Dale patrols, Ore run business, Thunderstone hunting (all still done to this day) plus several major journeys north.
ahem, I think I went off topic…

But anyways that is -MY- reasons for taking Keldorn out. He is a dwarf in a land of men far from home. He is learned of his people and their ways and proud of it. His in a place that he may have a chance of rediscovering some lost treasure or secret for his people once more that was lost ages ago to strife and war. Thus, he journeys….

Hope this answers your question AG.

Ack. This has been a major bugbear for me throughout my time here in the Vast.

I have often envied Keldorn his freedom. What I mean by this is that he has the basic motivations and intrests to be involved in just about anything here in the Vast. A lot of the rest of us do not benefit from these advantages. This topic has come up before. Almost exactly a year ago I commented on this problem in regards to the creation of the Company. I think it's as true now as it was then. Read it here.

What I'm trying to say is this, I personally wrestle often with the idea of WWPD (What Would Paul Do?). Since he has been around for a while and has made friends with quite a few characters, it has become easier for me to justify his involvement with a more activities. I strongly feel that shared experience is the basis for friendship. True friendship can serve as the motivation for almost any situation. Question is, how do we all as players put our characters into situations to gain that shared experience in meaningful and IC ways?

I strongly feel that shared experience is the basis for friendship. True friendship can serve as the motivation for almost any situation. Question is, how do we all as players put our characters into situations to gain that shared experience in meaningful and IC ways?

Good points. Good question.

I strongly feel that shared experience is the basis for friendship. True friendship can serve as the motivation for almost any situation. Question is, how do we all as players put our characters into situations to gain that shared experience in meaningful and IC ways?

A few thoughts on this specific set of questions as they tie into the over arching theme of the post.

I think the first thing that popped into my mind is survival. There is safety in numbers. If you are a new adventurer in town the safest way to learn the lay of the land is to explore it with others. It is a mutually beneficial situation for both parties. I found that at least for the first level or two and the first few weeks of a characters life this is the main principle surrounding going outside of town with other people. This is how most characters start out and it works for several reasons 1.) its sound logic that a person unfamiliar with an area would want to travel with others until they become familiar 2.) its a way for the character to become established in the world and 3.) it a way for them to begin building the foundations for the other ways in which characters interact outside the safety of the towns

After that it seems people travel together in 4 different ways. Personal Connections, The Greater Good, Common Interests and Sheer Randomness.

I'll start with the last one.

Sheer randomness. I find with my main character (Isendyl) alot of my time spent with folks who aren't her normal traveling companions is out of sheer randomness. As a druid and a wild elf Isen tends to avoid the cities (or at least I try to do it as much as I can while playing her) consequently most of her time is spent wandering around the wilderness where she is likely to randomly bump into people doing a variety of things, berry picking, hunting, moving from town to town, and occasionally running away from an angry bear (or insert other angry red highlighting creature/monster here) These situations highlight the need for good and consistent RP outside of towns. RP doesn't stop when we leave the gates to go kill things, as you never know when you'll bump into another character. These are not the strongest of parties but often they provide the opportunity to do something together, whether it be to escort one another back to the safety of a town (again higlighting the safety in numbers idea) or to do some specific thing like pick berries or flee that angry pack of goblins, or perhaps only stop and interact for a few moments before both continuing on your seperate ways.

The Common Interest. These are the sorts where the collegium gathers together to go investigate the reports of monster x wielding some specific spell, or a few rangers running a patrol of the woods in search of goblin populations and unusual sightings, or a few dwarves heading up to the mines for ore and perhaps the chance to rend a few orcs. These are the sorts of quests where even if the characters themselves don't know one another very well they have a common interest in the goal of the quest.


The Greater Good. This type of group dynamic tends to be built around the larger quests that are put together and can sometimes seem that its just people signing up OOC to go kill stuff with other people of similar level unless some thought is put into the reason why the creating PC is organizing it and why others have signed on. These are the ones where a group of varied pc's from all classes and alignments and walks of life band together to do something for the greater good of the land. Its important to think about these sorts of quests from your characters perspective.Who organized this. What is their reason for organizing it? Is that the reason they stated or did they say something else? Who was that person seeking out to help? How will this effect me? Why should I care? These are the questions that our characters need to ask themselves for these sort of quests. Why would I as a sword for hire care about the druid and ranger who are organizing a group to go and rid the forest of Monster X? Do I have a past with monster X? Is there money involved? Do I have some attachment to the woods? Do I have a personal connection to the people organizing this quest? This brings me to the final of these 4 different types

The Personal Connection. I saved this for last because this is to my way of thinking at least the sort of trump card of quests. The other reason is that all of the above mentioned scenario's help to build these personal connections. Personal connections serve as a way to bring people into the mix who might otherwise not be there. Take the collegium example from above. Say they know monster X is deep in the mhyrwood. So perado asks Isendyl to come along and act as a guide. Isendyl could really care less about the collegium studying monster X's magic, but Perado is a good friend and she asked and Isendyl might also have a few personal reasons to go (one to find out some information herself about monster X and two to make sure her friend Perado makes it out alright). The personal connection serves as a way to bring people into situations. That being said if it is invoked constantly it can wear thin and just become an exscuse for anyone to go and do anything with anyone. It seems to be most justifiable when it is used rarely and there are other secondary reasons why someone would want to go.

In writing this out I don't mean to express this as anything other than some of my own thoughts, by no means are these a comprehensive or total list and if others have other ideas behind why people adventure together I'd love to see the list grow. This is mostly just my thoughts on how I see folks adventure together and why, which I am sharing in the hopes that it will help others to think about why their characters go on the adventures they go on, and perhaps to shape those choices more actively in the future. One of the things I like about Isendyl is that her personality is so foreign to my own both in terms of how she relates to and occasionally leads people that it forces me to really think about why she does what she does. it is both challenging and extremely rewarding.

anyways I look forward to more posts!

Heres another one Darchala, Self Interest. Take that sword for hire. You paid him to come along with you and a few others. While everyone else was coming to do good deeds and such, he was coming simply to fill his purse. Sometimes the same event or trip can have PCs of a variety of motivations to join together for a single cause. This could even be taken to an extreme to the point of say a wizard searching for rare spell components that only a wizard would be interested in seeking out. Unless that wizard had loads of money to hire guards or had some friends, it’s likely he would be forced to search for it alone. (Or have a very one sided party of wizards looking for it as well) Thus those personal connections are very very handy to have.

I know PC motivation is always tough, mostly because I've had to struggle with it myself with Vincent. Being the "brave" fella he is, he is not exactly one to risk life and limb without a good reason. Indeed for the longest time he refused to set foot north of the Dale. Which only stopped gardually due to a few short trips north followed by his first trip to the vineyard. But sometimes you are dealt with one of the nastiest situations in the realm of PC motivation. I like to call this the "Join us or Log" situation. This is basically when a bunch of people are doing something that your own PC might not be very interested in doing but the thing is there is no one else on the server. Essentially you either have to join them, wait +30 mins by yourself, or log. And when it comes down to that, you begin to question the whole reason behind PC motivation.

Are they excuses? Well in a sense sometimes they are. Sure you can mine ore from that mine a few leagues north of the dale... or you can set out north of the vineyard and mine there under the assumption of searching out better veins of ore. (even though you only just needed some iron) Sure Vincent could of just went to some Trees within the Dale or glen for all his wood product needs, instead he gets Quinn to take him places he would never personally visit himself. I'd think that all such quests are really just "excuses" to go somewhere you don't normally go.

Yet often times it really comes down to that Personal connection and even perhaps simply asking. If someone posts a note in the wayfarer and asks for people to help him do such and such, your PC has been given a lot of room to figure out his PC motivation for going because your PC would have to take INITITIVE in order to join this quest and thus you don't go if your motivation level is "I Don't Care" but only if its an enthusiastic "YES!! Sign me up!!". But what if the quest runner, whom is a good friend of yours, asked you to join him? "I would appreciate if you joined me." Sometimes the easiest way to include someone is simply to extend your hand to them. (Assuming you had problems with trying to get people to join)

Most of the discussion so far is about Joining quests, but little has been said about staying away, probberly because it is somewhat counterproductive. Where does your PC draw the line and refuse even a friend's request for assisstance in comming? Is there someplace your PC is truely afraid to go to or hates so much? I know Vincent has two such places, Algorth and the Sunken Cementary. Places he would probberly rather walk into the Warrens alone than jounery towards, with even a group. While practially any cleric / paladin would jump for the chance at cleansing such places.

--edit (minutes after I posted)
Something else that just came to mind. Your PC always has a choice when it comes to Joining or not Joining Quests. Always. Even if its a Join Us Or Log Siutation, you always have that choice even if it is a painful one. Never feel compelled to join what your PC thinks is a foolish/waste-of-time quest or if your PC draws the line.

I completely agree with you on the joining/not joining thing. You raised several good points in your post self interest, and the above mentioned as well. In regard to the joining not joining thing, I think like with motivations the trick is to find ways to make even your characters desire to not join work for you.

I am not sure I'm expressing that properly so I'll just go with an example from a while back. Some folks went trolling around in the marshes despite the constant warnings from folks to leave the lizard folks well enough alone (as is always the case it seems hehe) They turned up missing and so some folks went to go search for them. As a matter of principle Isen doesn't enter the lands she respects the lizard folks and the sort of neutrality of "leave us alone and we'll do the same" they have with the folks of the surrounding lands and actively discourages others from going. IC it wouldn't make sense for Isen to go and she tried to dissway others from going. They still went and Isen was left in a bit of a quandry several of her friends whom she was worried would get killed were in that second party. So she assumed the shape of a wolf and followed after them (un partied) if only to keep an extra set of eyes on them and maybe bark if they went to far etc. I guess what I'm getting at is not the specifics of it (not everyone has alternate shapes) but rather the idea that even when you're character cannot/will not go on an adventure you can usually find a hook to stay involved in some way.

another example. Group X is going to the warrens and you are too inexperienced. Rather then just sit around the well bored go and pick berries to help tend wounds for the injured on their return.

It seems (to me at least) that even when we choose not to go on that big (or small) adventure there is still the potential to get some rewarding RP and an interesting few hours of RP out of it.

Just to be clear (in case anyone thought otherwise), this is not a DM specifically asking anyone for justification of why character X does Y thing, but rather an exploratory, philosophical discussion. I am most interested in what makes you all tick where this is concerened; no one needs to feel targeted in any way (and this is also coming out of my own afterthought, not because of someone's post or comment).

I know alot of the motivation tends to be related to the Dale's safety and security. Neutral or perhaps evil characters would have reasons to assist on such quests. If we fail to keep the Dale safe, then we are all at risk.

The other driving factor in my opinion would be the friendships that have developed over time. If the mission/quest seems dire, and you see the names of your good friends on the list of volunteers, you of course want to insure their safety, and may end up joining yourself.

After that, I think, it starts to break down into religious/racial/faction loyalties, mutual benefit/profit, personal desires/fears. Of course character alignments may change the order on these.

As far as planning the treks/outings/quests, I would have to say that it can be a hard decision to make. How do I motivate others to join me? I commend those who do it often with success. One thing is for sure though... it really helps when you as a player are more knowledgable of the lands in question, and in order to get that knowledge, you need to join in on other outings. I think you also need to feel secure as a leader (not only IC but OOC as well).

Finally I think the most important deciding factor should be FUN. Are you really enjoying yourself? You should be, since that is why we are here. Sometimes we can get over-stressed, tired, cranky etc and knowingly or unknowingly bring a piece of that feeling along. Sometimes the computer is fighting you, or perhaps other events outside the gameworld are repeatedly drawning away your attention. I think it is important for us all to realize when we are feeling this way, and perhaps take a break. Then once things settle down, you can hop back online and truly enjoy the game with your friends.

Whoa, I guess I should post this thing before it gets any bigger. Happy gaming all.