Some thoughts

[onomat]

Hi,

Sometimes when I post out here in the forums I feel that I come across as too harsh, and I hate that feeling. I really hate it. Now after saying that I am going to be harsh.

The two things I am going to rail against are not new, and are rants I'm sure you've all heard before from this DM or that DM. In fact most of my feelings are much better articulated by AG in this post here from almost two years ago. Go ahead, read the whole thing, please, I'll wait.

Now my short points:

1. On this role player server your characters are always on stage, from the moment they exit the lobby/OOC areas. Always. This means maintaining your character's persona even when other players are not watching (and not only because we DMs might be watching). All too often I see people who after leaving the "stage" begin running like crazy, wholesale animal slaughter, hitting every point on a map they know enemies spawn, and nary a word said, or emote emoted, of any of it. I'm not saying don't go on your patrols. I'm just saying go on patrols, not loot/xp farming. This is not a good way to lose that level 6 combat xp stop token.

2. This point is a little less wordy. I just have to gripe a little about some of the role play I witnessed, or rather didn't witness this weekend. I didn't get to spend as much time on this weekend as I would have liked, but frequently when I was on I saw nothing. Excellent, nay, EXCELLENT role play opportunities brushed off and ignored in favor of loot mongering and xp grinding. The really sad part of this is it wasn't our new community members that disappointed me, but rather folks who have been here for quite sometime.

I'm sorry for coming off so hard. But I like to end all things on a positive note. So here is something to think on:

The integrity of your characters is not in their gear, loot, or level. Ever. Ever. Ever.

Thanks for listening,
ono

[Algernon's Ghost]

I stand fully behind Onomat's post in support of it, and his decision to speak his mind.

[sarah petite]

*nods, bowing head* I stand corrected. I'm one to blame. I started a really non-social character, but that's no excuse. When getting ambushed at the old bridge, all my thoughts (as a player) were at how to stop all those stupid, mindless cemetary overflow of recent weeks.........not a single thought about RP. I continued that journey very OOC in thought, although I later realised the partymember Neville was communicating IC. Again, very much me, as a player, being dreadfully in fault. At the time of the bridge-ambush I was already informed of DM-presence, but...also another player-fault..that doesn't stop me from being very into OOC thoughts and thus not RP-ing.

At whiles I simply don't care about RP, just about getting out alive.. *shrugs* may sound stupid, but that's the way it is. And some things I learned IG and IC are quite hard to reflect through emotes or even words. Sometimes some chars need time to accept certain occurances, events............not all chars are the same, and they certainly don't react the same.

what i'm trying to say is probably this ( but not sure) : remember that you, as DM will have to deal with:
races.......sexes..........backgrounds...classes.......
or do you expect the same response from everyone?( some barbarians won't even blink after a crit that would kill a wizard)

I, for one, am not, nor ever will be a player to elaborate in long emotes................yet, somehow, to me, whenever i play a dwarf or elf that has it's roots in FR, i see the emotes lengthen.....(compulsive behaviour?). but any emote will take time, and thought. Some players will dedicate that time and thought at any circumstance. *shrugs* their choice. it can't ever be wrong to be that dedicated. but is this the norm to go by?

somehow this interacts with another thread..about quickslotted emotes.
to me, as a player, those fast emotes help me, and anyone within distance to understand what is going on. Sure, it isn't RP like many would like, but i think a short emote will get the message across AND give oppertunity to survive, instead of a customised emote, while enemies pour in.

recently i have been in several discussions about certain elements of computergaming vs PnP. Many parts have been discussed on forums. many haven't. Onomat states, and is concured by AG himself, that all players, at all times, at all places should play like a dm is present.
*grins* great. just like PnP. ..................../.........................................
*shrugs* sorry, no go for me. computerservers aren't PnP. no matter what people say or think or believe..i'm not RP-ing against a stupid tree, UNLESS i as player feel like it.
in PnP dm's are omnipresent, on servers it's a guess, and i play 80% dm-free. to my chars the goblins and bandits they meet are more real than a dm-spawn, since a dm-spawn is out of the ordinary. (perhaps not always, but, let's face it. a lot of the times a *strange* occurance takes place, it's dm-spawned)

Late now, so i'll try to get to a point here, okay?
dm's don't like what they see on the RP front sometimes. *nods* fine by me, i tried to cover that by the 80% indication. (what do you expect of players? emote every single action, like *draws his sword*, while his character draws his sword? what's the use of emoting things that the char does IG, visible to anyone near him?
Let me turn it around for a bit....once a character of mine received xp..just like that...she was walking, following the bends in the road and doing nothing but walking. As a player, i figured a dm must be on, since her walking usually isn't worth that much xp, but, as a player i also had to wonder.....WHY?.
dm's don't like what they see on the RP front, okay. Suggestion, dm's make themselves known to players a bit, and explain what they're doing.
i don't mind xp, and i guess most players don't...but getting xp, and having to figure out why?...that's tough.

look. i see it as simple as this. dm's have a role, as do all players. let's all play our roles, okay? but don't let the gap between players and dm's grow too big. Explain what is out there for both.

*grunts* just re-read what i wrote................heck, i really need another head, one with a clear mind preferably *sighs*. sorry, folks, but i'm not re-writing, just, explaining what i probably mean when it's asked for.

[goatte]

Timely post, Onomat. Thank you. You're right in that we can and do lose sight of what matters: the character. It's easy to get caught up in real world time constraints wen playing. "Hurry! I have to get to ...." It's easy to forget that the NPCs and objects we interact with have a reality within the game. Swat that dog that bumps you. He's sniffing your crotch. Try and take time to signal to others when you spot goblins, if you can. If your character would coordinate an attack or retreat, why wouldn't you as the player?

What I think Onomat is trying to get at is we should set our intent and our habits towards emoting to everything we encounter, unless they've gone actively hostile against us and we're in ranged or melee combat. Also, the quickslot emotes should be the beginnings of longer emotes, IMHO. A lot of us have bad habits developed by the official campaign, time spent playing single player computer games, etc. We need to drop the habits, is all.

And, choose to RP because you enjoy it, not because of that combat stop token or the hope for RP experience. The award of RP experience should come as a surprise, IMHO. Never think to yourself, "Man, that was the best RP and no one saw it." You saw it, and that's what matters. If you can emote by yourself, you can emote in response to others far easier and far better.

Mind you. I'm not perfect at RP, but that's what I aim for when I play.

goatte

[Taraxa Lionstooth]

I agree with Onomat's post 100%.

[Dabaro Viloufin]

that all players, at all times, at all places should play like a dm is present.

I fail to see why a player 'must' play like a DM is present, if they are there, they are there. Play as a Player IC, not for the DMs, not for other players(althought RP with others is highly encourged, especially to new players), but for yourself. I recall Onomat's post some time back about some players (and I'm paraphrasing here, sorry, I don't remember where the post is) 'kicking their RP into overdrive'(not exact quote) when a DM makes their presence.

I'm not going to go on about when I do this or when I do that or if I'm a part of what Onomat has seen, simple fact is, those of us who do play this way, know it, we don't need to post about it then try to justify why we do it. Not singleing you out sarah petite, its something I've noticed in lots of Topics such as these.

This is not a good way to lose that level 6 combat xp stop token.

IMHO, players should not even think about this little item they get when they reach Lvl 6.

I'm just saying go on patrols, not loot/xp farming.

I have to ask why put loot and XP farming together? XP farming is one thing, but loot farming? One can emote all day long and just be there for the loot, RPXP and emoting doesn't give the coin needed for those potions.

You make some valid points, it doesn't suprise me that this comes from "players that have been here for some time", as I said, we all do it.(well, maybe not 'all' )

My thoughts if they are worth anything to anybody.

[Algernon's Ghost]

By loot farming, I think Ono means the silent runs to the field and back until you're busting at the seams with goods, then hitting the store to sell, then returning straight to the same little cycle around the town or wherever. Where's the role-playing in that? Silence is not role-playing, and mindless videogaming is not role-playing.

No, we don't want people to get killed trying to emote while engaged in combat, but combat only lasts 6-30 seconds in most cases, and then it's travelling between the next encounter between NPCs or other PCs. That leaves time to at least drop an emote, or talk to a partymate in between.

This is a role-playing server, it's what we are about. Everyone should remember he or she is setting an example for anyone else who logs in to play, including the DMs (you can't see us, but we're here playing too, and we like to have fun watching and interacting, and we like to have the opportunity to reward good play that is done in the spirit of the server). If Joe Noob shows up and sees a bunch of people just running loot trips with no IC interaction and no role-play, then what is he to think?

[Dragon Chucker]

recently i have been in several discussions about certain elements of computergaming vs PnP. Many parts have been discussed on forums. many haven't. Onomat states, and is concured by AG himself, that all players, at all times, at all places should play like a dm is present.


...I think there's more temporal control in PnP. As an example, the 3 weeks it takes to get fromm point A to point B by ship with no unusual occurances can be RP'd as a small window that takes less time than the real time presented by NWN -even under the accelerated time cycle. I'm pretty certain that's been brought up though. Just an observation anyways. *shrugs*



.

[onomat]

Sarah,

I do not particularly like doing personal responses publicly, but I feel there are a few things everyone can benefit from reading in rebuttal to some of your comments. There will be a PM coming from me shortly to address the rest.

First off, you're not going to stop the cemetery overflow. Ever. New adventurers rarely live to be old adventurers.

Your DM present/DM not present play styles should not differ. Your character does not change, and their actions/reactions should not change because an intangible is present. DMs do not exist for your characters.

Emote every action? That would be dreadful, and I never suggested such a thing. But something, anything, to let us know your character is not the Diablo guy, just clicking around killing and killing and killing.

Your character that got xp when just walking, maybe she took part in a small encounter earlier that day and didn't get rewarded for it yet. Maybe she was well played at the well and whichever AFK DM got back to their computer, read it, and decided to drop some xp on her. The reasons are endless.

And your assertion that there is a gap between players and DMs is just silly. Every single DM on here plays also. We are well aware of the everyday players' issues.

IMHO, players should not even think about this little item they get when they reach Lvl 6.

Thank you Dabaro.

When I say loot farm I don't mean out on patrol to get loot. These characters are adventurers, how else are they going to afford the healing potions and other such things if they don't do a little goblin/orc squashing for money? I mean the endless cycle through the glades, wash, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.

Thank you again, for listening,
ono

[Algernon's Ghost]

Your DM present/DM not present play styles should not differ. Your character does not change, and their actions/reactions should not change because an intangible is present. DMs do not exist for your characters.

Amen!

But something, anything, to let us know your character is not the Diablo guy, just clicking around killing and killing and killing.

Hallelujah!

Your character that got xp when just walking, maybe she took part in a small encounter earlier that day and didn't get rewarded for it yet. Maybe she was well played at the well and whichever AFK DM got back to their computer, read it, and decided to drop some xp on her. The reasons are endless.

Truth! I do this all the time.

And your assertion that there is a gap between players and DMs is just silly. Every single DM on here plays also. We are well aware of the everyday players' issues.

Oh lordy, he said a mouthful!

This post was made for emphasis, in case the actual post was missed.

[Dabaro Viloufin]

Ah, ok, didn't take into account the rinse and repeat factor. That would make my statement invalid as I misunderstood, seem to always miss those over looked points at times.